Manual transmission question

"Just Jeepin'" (macintux)
07/16/2020 at 17:05 • Filed to: Replacing it would still be roughly the price of a down payment so it makes sense to keep shoveling money down this hole right?

So far, the shop I where !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! has not impressed me, but it’s typical shop angst: not calling me in a timely fashion, doing a half-assed preliminary assessment on the noises I’m worried about, etc.

They’re currently looking for a new (reman or “ lightly used” , as if that’s a thing with these Jeeps ) transmission to replace mine, because after multiple rebuild attempts by an other shop they don’t think it’s worth trying again.

So, the key question: are they just trying to keep their labor commitment down? A reman is, as I understand it, basically a rebuild but done somewhere else.

I love it when it works. It just doesn’t work nearly enough of the time.

DISCUSSION (55)

Steve in Manhattan > Just Jeepin'
07/16/2020 at 17:12

I’d take it somewhere else. Out of curiosity, did they put a new clutch in when they had the transmission out the first time?

Just Jeepin' > Steve in Manhattan
07/16/2020 at 17:14

Yeah, I’ve had two new clutches and two transmission rebuilds in the last two years.

Unfortunately I’m having a hard time finding a transmission shop I trust at this point.

HammerheadFistpunch > Just Jeepin'
07/16/2020 at 17:14

I think it’ s simpler than that - they don’t want you back in the shop if the reman doesn’t work and they feel like if they can put a used box in there that if it fails again they can say it’ s just the nature of the beast. Can you find someone to sell you a reman box and have the shop ship the core to the supplier for you?

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Just Jeepin'
07/16/2020 at 17:16

Rebuilding a transmission isn’t that hard. Remans usually replace wear items such as bearings, seals, and synchros. Same as a rebuild, but done externally to the installer.

If a previously rebuilt transmission failed prematurely, it was either rebuilt incorrectly (worn items not replaced, improperly inspected or installed), installed incorrectly, Or something external caused the issue (slave cylinder, shift linkage, or misuse).

The Snowman > Just Jeepin'
07/16/2020 at 17:17

There has to be some kind of Jeep specialist that re- dose these trans but beefier.

Just Jeepin' > HammerheadFistpunch
07/16/2020 at 17:17

To clarify, you’re suggesting I have someone out of the area do the rebuild?

Just Jeepin' > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
07/16/2020 at 17:19

One reason I gave up on my earlier shop is they were sending it out for a rebuild, so when it was screwed up I didn’t have any confidence as to whether the rebuild was done badly or my shop was installing it wrong.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Just Jeepin'
07/16/2020 at 17:20

Wait... Isn’t this supposed to be the song lyrics a with an automatic transmission?

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > HammerheadFistpunch
07/16/2020 at 17:20

That's a good idea. Isn't it the case that pretty much anybody could install a reman you transmission?

HammerheadFistpunch > Just Jeepin'
07/16/2020 at 17:20

If you can find a reputable shop it might be worth looking at

Just Jeepin' > HammerheadFistpunch
07/16/2020 at 17:22

Dunno. That’s part of my stress with the previous work: when it was still screwed up after the rebuild, was the rebuild done poorly or did the shop installing it make mistakes?

VincentMalamute-Kim > Just Jeepin'
07/16/2020 at 17:24

I don’t remember your wrench skill level or desire to but swapping transmissions yourself isn’t hard. It’s gotta be easier than doing an Audi A8 trans swap which a buddy and I did. Just follow 989 steps one at a time.

We sent it out to a ZF authorized place in Georgia (of all places, maybe some descendants of Werner von Braun) where they spoke with a German accent.

Reading your other responses, we did that so we could control the installation quality. Still couldn’t control the remanufacturing quality though.

Just Jeepin' > VincentMalamute-Kim
07/16/2020 at 17:26

Not really practical for me, at least not with the pandemic. In happier times I could probably summon a few Jeep friends, but they’d have to supply all of the knowledge and back strength , since I lack both.

whatisthatsound > Just Jeepin'
07/16/2020 at 17:28

I had my '06 LJ grenade it's transmission at 120k miles. It was a 6 speed and when it happened I learned it's common and annoying. I put in a rebuilt transmission and got rid of it.

Just Jeepin' > whatisthatsound
07/16/2020 at 17:30

Yeah, this shop also didn’t endear themselves to me by asserting this model of transmission should be fine. I’ve read enough to know that’s not the case.

HammerheadFistpunch > Just Jeepin'
07/16/2020 at 17:31

I know that feeling. My forester XT had the transmission case opened by a shop and it was trouble ever since, mostly because they were stupid and kept ordering the wrong CV...they say. I Think they did a crap job. The nice thing about finding a reman from a reputable company would be that they would be on the line for their work and if there was a problem they would want the core back for analysis.

or you could just

https://www.allstategear.com/New-Jeep-Wrangler-AX15-Transmission-52108050-p/52108050.htm

VincentMalamute-Kim > Just Jeepin'
07/16/2020 at 17:33

oh well. I hate dealing with shops.

Cash Rewards > Just Jeepin'
07/16/2020 at 17:34

Two each of clutches and transmissions! Wow

nermal > Just Jeepin'
07/16/2020 at 17:44

Check the pricing of whatever unit they’re offering against Ebay prices for the same thing.

Consider doing it yourself. There are surprisingly not a lot of specialized tools required outside of a Harbor Freight transmission jack. There are also a ton of instructional vids posted on YouTube. I’m about to do a driveway clutch replacement in my pickup next weekend by the grace of both, and will save close to $2k in the process .

Just Jeepin' > HammerheadFistpunch
07/16/2020 at 17:47

I suggested the AX-15 swap but they seemed even less enthused.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Just Jeepin'
07/16/2020 at 17:53

It’s honestly somewhat hard to install a transmission wrong. I’d ask who they sent it to if you don’t already know.

Just Jeepin' > VincentMalamute-Kim
07/16/2020 at 17:53

Trust me, I know that feeling. I’ve found a few mechanics I trust for certain tasks, but the ones I trust most are rarely available when I need them.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Just Jeepin'
07/16/2020 at 17:55

Were the clutches worn out or just replaced since the tech was in there?

Just Jeepin' > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
07/16/2020 at 17:55

I know who they sent it to. I’m making sure I don’t deal with that shop again; even setting aside the ongoing stench of failure, they broke my first housing by waiting an extra day to deliver it so they could put more into the same truck, and then another transmission broke free and crushed mine en route.

That was not a happy day.

Gone > Just Jeepin'
07/16/2020 at 17:55

Assuming it’s a mechanic place. Would need a shop to do that work. Most don’t seem to like to do non-OEM configs. Local Jeep/4x4 specialty place?

Also yes, they wan t no part of it if it doesn’t work (reman unit).

Just Jeepin' > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
07/16/2020 at 17:56

First replacement was due to wear and tear. Second was during the second rebuild, since the synchros showed more wear than they expected after only a year of use, so they thought perhaps the clutch was to blame.

Just Jeepin' > Gone
07/16/2020 at 17:58

The big 4x4 shop locally has permanently earned a place on my ban list thanks to epic drama with my rear differential. This Jeep is cursed.

I need to bug my usual mechanic again; I sent him a message a few weeks ago asking about the AX15 but didn’t hear back.

Gone > Just Jeepin'
07/16/2020 at 18:00

Depends? Prior to my ownership, my ‘98 Dakota V8 NV3500 had the cluster shaft explode @ 8k mi. The dealer only replaced the cluster. I bought it @ 14k mi. Something was wrong with the unit as a whole, as it always felt a bit wonky and got noticeably worse when I put a Hurst shifter on it. I went through it and rebuilt it with 35k on it. I put it back in only to remove it virtually immediately. I handed it off to a guy who I considered a pro and some of the internals were out of spec. We ended up going through a whole other box comparing them and the case. Ended up swapping in bits that were up to spec. So, maybe something similar with your box?

Sometimes at the edge of tolerances things just don’t work/work well. Steering boxes seem to be particularly sensitive to this as well...

sony1492 > Just Jeepin'
07/16/2020 at 18:06

Its hard finding a shop that wants to take the time to diagnose because its typically not cost effective for the technician to spend time on that sort of job.

Shops don’t have to be knowledgeable in your specific vehicle to be good at their job, if they don’t understand those transmissions are glass its because they work on 10 0 other makes and models. On that same point for them to do the rebuild themselves they would have to employ someone who has technical knowledge and tools to do it, since trans repair is specialized its unlikely they do.

Gone > Just Jeepin'
07/16/2020 at 18:11

Yikes. That’s amazing as t hese things aren’t that hard or hard to work on . Espe ci ally a D44 ...the hell ? Can see why you’d be “over” the whole thing. Very discouraging and will end with you hating the thing. Assuming that’s the only place and there’s n one else you can find via Jeep clubs, etc.... Sucks...

jeepoftheseus > Just Jeepin'
07/16/2020 at 18:11

You can buy an AX15 new from Novak still. A reasonable shop should be able to do the swap. Novak and Advanced Adapters have all the stuff to make it work for your application. If it’s is truly a forever Jeep for you then go that route. It’s gotta be cheaper than messing with the one that’s in it has been. I feel for you man, it sucks having a vehicle that brings you joy sitting there being a broken jerk.

I put a reman AX15 in mine (to replace the original busted AX15) from a shop TN or KY that my guy swore by. I didn’t realize that you could still order from Novak when I did it. I haven’t even put 10,000 miles on the reman unit yet so I can’t speak to it other than it does what it is supposed to do. I can find that company if you like. Hell I think it was something like AX15.com.

Link to Novak below.

https://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/transmission/transmission-packages/ax15-package/

onlytwowheels > Just Jeepin'
07/16/2020 at 18:31

https://shiftsst.com/4wd

https://nsg370.com

No shop really wants to deal with what is likely a giant can of worms, so starti ng over with a known good transmission simplifies things, and they sure don’t want to be in the middle of any possib le litigation against the other shop.

DipodomysDeserti > VincentMalamute-Kim
07/16/2020 at 18:50

I swapped the clutch in my JK and pulling the trans was a huge pain in the ass. My mec hanic friend said I was nuts doing it in my driveway.

You have to pull both driveshafts, the entire exhaust, re move all the guards, one of which holds the fuel tank partially up. Reaching the top trans bolts with air tools is a huge PITA. I left the TC attached, so getting the trans lined up again was also a nightmare. Jeeps have a lot of shit crammed into a very small space. They’re also put together like shit.

Just Jeepin' > onlytwowheels
07/16/2020 at 19:07

The video overview on the NSG370 site is particularly informative, thanks. Sounds like my 1st gear problem may be my shifter.

Steve in Manhattan > Just Jeepin'
07/16/2020 at 19:41

Car Talk website has a section called Mechanix Files - put in your ZIP code and you will get mechanics that people who listen to the show have used and liked.

GoodIdeaAtTheTime > Just Jeepin'
07/16/2020 at 19:43

Collect everything for the sw ap and bring it to me. I am about 2-3 weeks out for scheduled work, but could wiggle it in over a weekend and get it go ing again. Labor cost, probably not much more than a clutch job. Nothing all that difficult to do.

The 6 speeds are a notoriuos pain to get right du ring a rebuild. The number of issues from just overtorquing is insane. Very easy to warp a case...

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Just Jeepin'
07/16/2020 at 20:40

Call me an old man, but rebuilding transmissions seems to be something no one is good at -- including actual tranny shops. I would just have a used one from a wreck put in. It's certainly cheaper...

arl > Just Jeepin'
07/16/2020 at 21:40

Bronco?

Just kidding (mostly). Hope you get it running soon.

Just Jeepin' > GoodIdeaAtTheTime
07/16/2020 at 22:42

I appreciate the offer, might take you up on that at some point, but getting it to Louisville is definitely going to have to wait at least until I find out why the front end sounds like it’s ready to fall apart.

Just Jeepin' > arl
07/16/2020 at 22:42

It is a mighty tempting vehicle, but I’d miss being able to drop the windshield.

VincentMalamute-Kim > DipodomysDeserti
07/16/2020 at 23:55

ah. I had a lift at the time. Audi’s are also packed in there. But they’re usually put together well. Our toughest time was using what seemed like 3 feet of extensions to get at downpipe bolts.

DipodomysDeserti > VincentMalamute-Kim
07/17/2020 at 01:18

I needed a three footer to reach to top tranny bolt, but then I couldn’t generate enough torque to get it loose. Ended up contorting myself and getting it without an extension.

Jeeps are tricky in that it looks like there’s space, and then you realize you can’t actually pull anything out unless you take everything out. You have to drop the subframe (which holds the transmission, just to remove the exhaust y pipe. Then all the bolts and retainers break because they’re the cheapest shit possible.

PredsFan270 > Just Jeepin'
07/17/2020 at 03:12

It’s simple, really. A reman unit falls on someone else’s shoulders if it fails. Usually, with labor reimbursement for the shop if it fails, should they choose to fill out the proper paperwork.

They don’t have to trust their fine measurement tools.. or even d o the measurements, for that matter. That’s done by someone whom, presumably, carries a decent reputation.

There’s, say, 2,500 pieces in a transmission. Every single one has to work flawlessly and within specification. If it’s a general repair shop, I absolutely don’t blame them for not agreeing to the headache you’d like them to be confident enough to undertake.

This post makes me sad that it's even here. Clearly, everyone thinks their chosen wrenchmaster is a crook. This shop is trying to appease you, while not risking lawsuit on your expectation of excellence.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Just Jeepin'
07/17/2020 at 05:33

Wow.

Just Jeepin' > PredsFan270
07/17/2020 at 07:52

I’ve only once discovered a “crooked” shop, and that was an admission by a manager months later about a former employee.

I have, however, had a lot of experience with shops which are too busy to do a good job. I’m just trying to understand the motivation here.

After 6 years of non-stop expensive problems with this Jeep, and 1 year of ongoing transmission problems, I don’t want to spend another year or more dealing with this.

ihm96 > Just Jeepin'
07/17/2020 at 09:05

Nothing worse than doing extensive research on why your car is an exception to the normal automotive rule and being told “nah its fine” like what they just told you with that box lol

Ash78, voting early and often > Just Jeepin'
07/17/2020 at 10:58

My longtime VW shop has a general policy of “We don’t open transmissions”

And that’s after several lifetimes of collective experience among the handful of techs there. Just too much risk to NOT let a specialist shop do it.

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Just Jeepin' > Ash78, voting early and often
07/17/2020 at 11:02

Well, this claims to be a transmission shop.

BadMotorScooter > Ash78, voting early and often
07/17/2020 at 12:16

I went into a transmission shop and saw a 4L80 valve body on the bench. I then realized why specialist transmission shops exist. I don’t know what kind of black magic this thing conjures.

Kinja'd!!!

Ash78, voting early and often > BadMotorScooter
07/17/2020 at 12:20

The modern auto tranny is something that I couldn’t believe made it past the initial testing phase 75-ish years ago. I feel like most other products would be abandoned as too complex and potentially error-prone. That said, I’m amazed that half of all cars don’t have catastrophic tranny failure on a regular basis. It’s pretty amazing.

Dest > Just Jeepin'
07/17/2020 at 20:20

I mean what are your other options? Another rebuild? Trade in a jl? I think tossing your trans off a cliff is your only option at this point.

Just Jeepin' > Dest
07/17/2020 at 20:42

I got a quote for a reman: almost 5k. No way I’m spending that much on such a crappy design of a transmission, so I’ll find something else to replace it with.

TheBlightOfGrey > whatisthatsound
07/18/2020 at 12:34

Now I know why there’s two LJs on my local CL that aren’t selling despite their alleged “Holy Grail” status . Aside from being over-priced, they’re both right at around 120K miles.

whatisthatsound > TheBlightOfGrey
07/18/2020 at 13:09

Juse go ahead and undercut them 5k and then they are worth it

Dest > Just Jeepin'
07/20/2020 at 07:22

For that much I’d go with one out of a junkyard first. I’m pretty sure they fixed some of the popping out issues in later years, so it could be better.